{"id":14907,"date":"2019-04-22T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-04-22T04:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/shatontv.com\/major-mistake-in-the-episode-the-line-of-succession\/"},"modified":"2022-07-06T00:43:54","modified_gmt":"2022-07-06T04:43:54","slug":"major-mistake-in-the-episode-the-line-of-succession","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/major-mistake-in-the-episode-the-line-of-succession\/","title":{"rendered":"Major Mistake In The Episode &#8211; The Line Of Succession"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"attachment_10663\" style=\"width: 190px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"mailto:hosts@shatpod.com\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-10663\" class=\"wp-image-10663 size-full\" src=\"\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Game-of-Thrones-Theories.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"180\" height=\"122\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-10663\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><strong>Have a Theory? <a href=\"mailto:hosts@shatpod.com\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Share It Now!<\/a><\/strong><\/p><\/div>\n<p>Before the Instacast, I&#8217;m here to offer up an &#8220;Ummm actually&#8221; but not to you guys &#8211; no, my &#8220;Ummm actually&#8221; is directed right at the showrunners.<\/p>\n<p>One of the most significant scenes in this episode is the one where Jon tells Dany about his true identity and superior claim to the Iron Throne. In response, Dany notes that Jon is &#8220;the last MALE heir of House Targaryen.&#8221; I&#8217;ve watched this scene twice over &#8211; it&#8217;s clear that Dany is really emphasizing the word &#8220;male&#8221; to imply that Jon&#8217;s gender is the reason his claim to the Throne is stronger.<\/p>\n<p>This is entirely incorrect under EVERY method of succession in Westeros. Jon has the stronger claim regardless of his and Dany&#8217;s gender &#8211; in fact, if Jon was a woman and Dany was a man, nothing would change and fem-Jon would still be first in line. This is because the line of succession ALWAYS flows from the Mad King to Rhaegar, to all of Rhaegar&#8217;s children before ever reaching Rhaegar&#8217;s siblings &#8211; Dany or Visyres.<\/p>\n<p>Look at the British Royal Family as a great real world analogy &#8211; Prince Harry is behind: his father Prince Charles, then his elder brother Prince William, then behind William and Kate Middleton&#8217;s eldest child Prince George, then behind Will and Kate&#8217;s second child Princess Charlotte. In this analogy, Charles is the Mad King, Prince William is Rhaegar, Prince George is Jon Snow, and Prince Harry is Dany. Hell, even a Disney movie gets this right &#8211; look at the Lion King. Jon Snow is Simba and Dany is Scar.<\/p>\n<p>But don&#8217;t take my word for it &#8211; let&#8217;s go through each of the three succession systems used in the Seven Kingdoms. I&#8217;ve attached pictures from the Game of Thrones Wiki for reference.<\/p>\n\n\t\t<style>\n\t\t\t#gallery-1 {\n\t\t\t\tmargin: auto;\n\t\t\t}\n\t\t\t#gallery-1 .gallery-item {\n\t\t\t\tfloat: left;\n\t\t\t\tmargin-top: 10px;\n\t\t\t\ttext-align: center;\n\t\t\t\twidth: 33%;\n\t\t\t}\n\t\t\t#gallery-1 img {\n\t\t\t\tborder: 2px solid #cfcfcf;\n\t\t\t}\n\t\t\t#gallery-1 .gallery-caption {\n\t\t\t\tmargin-left: 0;\n\t\t\t}\n\t\t\t\/* see gallery_shortcode() in wp-includes\/media.php *\/\n\t\t<\/style>\n\t\t<div id='gallery-1' class='gallery galleryid-14907 gallery-columns-3 gallery-size-thumbnail'><dl class='gallery-item'>\n\t\t\t<dt class='gallery-icon landscape'>\n\t\t\t\t<a href='https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode.png'><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"150\" height=\"150\" src=\"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-150x150.png\" class=\"attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail\" alt=\"\" srcset=\"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-160x160.png 160w, https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-320x320.png 320w, https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-100x100.png 100w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 150px) 100vw, 150px\" \/><\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/dt><\/dl><dl class='gallery-item'>\n\t\t\t<dt class='gallery-icon landscape'>\n\t\t\t\t<a href='https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-3.png'><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"150\" height=\"150\" src=\"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-3-150x150.png\" class=\"attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail\" alt=\"\" srcset=\"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-3-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-3-160x160.png 160w, https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-3-320x320.png 320w, https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-3-100x100.png 100w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 150px) 100vw, 150px\" \/><\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/dt><\/dl><dl class='gallery-item'>\n\t\t\t<dt class='gallery-icon landscape'>\n\t\t\t\t<a href='https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-2.png'><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"150\" height=\"150\" src=\"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-2-150x150.png\" class=\"attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail\" alt=\"\" srcset=\"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-2-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-2-160x160.png 160w, https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-2-320x320.png 320w, https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-2-100x100.png 100w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 150px) 100vw, 150px\" \/><\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/dt><\/dl><br style=\"clear: both\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\n<p>First, House Targaryen implemented Royal Inheritance Laws after a civil war (called the Dance of the Dragons) caused by an elder sister challenging the rule of her younger brother. The brother won. As a result, the traditional inheritance system for the Iron Throne is an extremely male-favored system and skips over every female heir until there are no men left. A King&#8217;s brothers actually inherit before his own daughters &#8211; or even before his daughter&#8217;s sons. This is why Stannis (Robert&#8217;s eldest brother) would be in line for the Iron Throne before Myrcella (Robert&#8217;s alleged daughter). This is a very difficult system to describe in further detail, but suffice to say Jon&#8217;s claim wins over Dany&#8217;s using this system. HOWEVER, the same is true under the other two inheritance systems in the Seven Kingdoms, making Dany&#8217;s comment about Jon being a male heir irrelevant.<\/p>\n<p>Let&#8217;s look at the Anadal System &#8211; this system is used by every house EXCEPT for those in Dorne and, as noted above, the sitting Royal Family. Let&#8217;s pretend this system was the one governing the claims to the Iron Throne. Under this system, a King&#8217;s sibling would only inherit after his entire bloodline &#8211; i.e. all children and grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc. regardless of gender &#8211; is dead. Among siblings, inheritance goes to the brothers by order of age, then to the sisters by order of age.<\/p>\n<p>Let&#8217;s use the Starks as an example. After Ned, Robb is Lord of Winterfell. Then Bran, then Rickon, then Sansa, then Arya. Only after Arya is dead would Uncle Benjen inherit (assuming he never took the Black). It&#8217;s worth noting that if Arya was lady of Winterfell &#8211; the last-in-line woman child &#8211; her kids would inherit before Benjen.<\/p>\n<p>Now let&#8217;s look at the Targaryens. Under this system, the Mad King has the Throne, then Rhaegar, then Rhaegar&#8217;s first son, then Jon, then Rhaegar&#8217;s daughter, then Viserys, and only then Dany. If no one died and Jon were a known Targaryen, he is third in line for the throne, while Dany is sixth. It&#8217;s also worth noting that both Jon&#8217;s claim and Jon&#8217;s sister&#8217;s claim is stronger even than Dany&#8217;s brother Viserys. Bloodline trumps gender.<\/p>\n<p>Now let&#8217;s look at Dornish succession. Dornish succession is not sexist &#8211; it&#8217;s gender neutral. Under Dornish law, a King&#8217;s sibling still only inherits when his direct bloodline is dead (i.e. all children, grandchildren, and so on), but among siblings only birth order matters &#8211; an elder sister inherits before a younger son. Using the Starks again, after Ned is Robb, then Sansa, then Bran, then Arya, then Rickon &#8211; only then would it pass to Benjen.<\/p>\n<p>Looking at the Targaryens, after the Mad King is Rhaegar, then Rhaegar&#8217;s first-born son, then his second-born daughter, then Jon, then Viserys and only then Dany. Here, Jon&#8217;s spot falls to fourth in line for the Throne &#8211; his elder sister inherits before him &#8211; but he is still two spots ahead of Dany. This bears repeating &#8211; under the most progressive, gender-neutral system of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms, Jon&#8217;s claim still beats Dany&#8217;s. Why? Because bloodline trumps gender. And yet, there we have Dany making a big deal that Jon is a male heir&#8230;it makes no sense. I get that it thematically fits with the episode &#8211; Sansa and Dany discussing sexism, Brienne being knighted &#8211; but it makes zero sense whatsoever. Gender has no bearing on Jon&#8217;s claim.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m actually genuinely disappointed in the show for making this mistake &#8211; I don&#8217;t think it was an oversight by Dany, but rather, by the showrunners. This feels like amateur hour in an otherwise great episode so close to the grand finale of the series. Here&#8217;s hoping there are no more big mistakes like this.<\/p>\n<p>P.S. For Dany&#8217;s claim to beat Jon&#8217;s, she would have to be working off of a system where the Throne passes to all members of a current generation before passing to children &#8211; I am not aware of any system of royal succession that uses this method. Under this method, Benjen Stark inherits before Robb, Scar inherits before Simba, Prince Harry inherits before Prince George. It&#8217;s unheard of.<p><strong>Subscribe Now<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><em>Android:\u00a0<a title=\"Android\" href=\"https:\/\/shatontv.com\/game-of-thrones-android\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">https:\/\/shatontv.com\/game-of-thrones-android<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><em>Apple\/iTunes:\u00a0<\/em><a title=\"iTunes\" href=\"https:\/\/shatontv.com\/game-of-thrones-itunes\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>https:\/\/shatontv.com\/game-of-thrones-itunes<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong><u>Help Support the Podcast<\/u><\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><em>Support with Paypal &#8211; <a href=\"https:\/\/shatontv.com\/paypal\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">https:\/\/shatontv.com\/paypal<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><em>Support With Venmo \u2013\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/venmo.com\/ShatPodcasts\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">https:\/\/venmo.com\/ShatPodcasts<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><em>Shop \/ Merchandise: <a href=\"https:\/\/teespring.com\/stores\/shat-on-podcasts\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">https:\/\/shatontv.com\/shop<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><em>Shop Amazon With Our Affiliate Link &#8211;\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/?tag=shatmovies-20\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/?tag=shatmovies-20<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><em>Sponsor&#8217;s Listener Survey &#8211; <a href=\"https:\/\/shatontv.com\/survey\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">https:\/\/shatontv.com\/survey<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><em>Leave an iTunes Review &#8211;\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shatontv.com\/game-of-thrones-review\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">https:\/\/shatontv.com\/game-of-thrones-review<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><em>Leave a Voicemail &#8211;\u00a0<a href=\"tel:914-719-7428\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">(914) 719-SHAT<\/a> &#8211; <a href=\"tel:914-719-7428\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">(914) 719-7428<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><em>Feeds &amp; Social Media &#8211;\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shatontv.com\/subscribe-and-follow\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">https:\/\/shatontv.com\/subscribe-and-follow\/<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><em>Checkout our Movie Podcast &#8211;\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/shatthemovies.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">http:\/\/shatthemovies.com<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><em>Theme Song &#8211;\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=NB_oIItJ0ZM\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">&#8220;Seven Nation Army (Epic Orchestral Cover)&#8221;<\/a>\u00a0&#8211; Ciaran Burch<\/em><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Before the Instacast, I&#8217;m here to offer up an &#8220;Ummm actually&#8221; but not to you guys &#8211; no, my &#8220;Ummm actually&#8221; is directed right at the showrunners. One of the most significant scenes in this episode is the one where Jon tells Dany about his true identity and superior claim&#46;&#46;&#46;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[1719],"tags":[5437,5476,114,2374],"class_list":["post-14907","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-game-of-thrones-small-council","tag-game-of-thrones-season-8","tag-got-s8e2","tag-photos","tag-small-council-read"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v19.1 (Yoast SEO v27.3) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Major Mistake In The Episode - The Line Of Succession<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/major-mistake-in-the-episode-the-line-of-succession\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Major Mistake In The Episode - The Line Of Succession\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Before the Instacast, I&#8217;m here to offer up an &#8220;Ummm actually&#8221; but not to you guys &#8211; no, my &#8220;Ummm actually&#8221; is directed right at the showrunners. One of the most significant scenes in this episode is the one where Jon tells Dany about his true identity and superior claim&#046;&#046;&#046;\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/major-mistake-in-the-episode-the-line-of-succession\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Shat on TV\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/shatontv\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2019-04-22T04:00:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2022-07-06T04:43:54+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-150x150.png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dick Ebert\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@shatontv\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@shatontv\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dick Ebert\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"5 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/shatpod.com\\\/tv\\\/major-mistake-in-the-episode-the-line-of-succession\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/shatpod.com\\\/tv\\\/major-mistake-in-the-episode-the-line-of-succession\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Dick Ebert\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/shatpod.com\\\/tv\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/5bfcdf55e0e42d2f8f55954826bcee0e\"},\"headline\":\"Major Mistake In The Episode &#8211; 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but not to you guys &#8211; no, my &#8220;Ummm actually&#8221; is directed right at the showrunners. One of the most significant scenes in this episode is the one where Jon tells Dany about his true identity and superior claim&#46;&#46;&#46;","og_url":"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/major-mistake-in-the-episode-the-line-of-succession\/","og_site_name":"Shat on TV","article_publisher":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/shatontv","article_published_time":"2019-04-22T04:00:00+00:00","article_modified_time":"2022-07-06T04:43:54+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/wp-content\/uploads\/Major-Mistake-in-the-Episode-150x150.png","type":"","width":"","height":""}],"author":"Dick Ebert","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@shatontv","twitter_site":"@shatontv","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Dick Ebert","Est. reading time":"5 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/major-mistake-in-the-episode-the-line-of-succession\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/major-mistake-in-the-episode-the-line-of-succession\/"},"author":{"name":"Dick Ebert","@id":"https:\/\/shatpod.com\/tv\/#\/schema\/person\/5bfcdf55e0e42d2f8f55954826bcee0e"},"headline":"Major Mistake In The Episode &#8211; 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